“But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8, KJV)

“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Romans 10:13, KJV)

now, may i ask, what will you do with this information?

if you'd wish to accept him, pray this small prayer, and believe what you say, for good works cannot say you, only believing Jesus died for you- and for your sins, and he is the only way to heaven. you are a sinner, i am a sinner, we were born this way, with the flesh. with the want to do wrong,
the only way to heaven my friend is JESUS CHRIST our lord and savior!! not by good works, only by HIM!!!
Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
it is never to late to exept him, he will never NEVER turn you down
Ephesians2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Proverbs 8:17 - I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.

if you don't know what or how to pray, all you have to do, is bow your head, and say:
lord, i know i'm a sinner, the only way i can get to heaven is through you, who died on the cross, and rose again the thrird day, lord i ask that you'd come into my heart and save me, there is no other way other then you, lord come into my heart, and lead me with your hand. help me to live the life you've wanted for me since day one. amen

he has been reaching out his hand your hole life, will you awnser him?? will you take up the cup of salvation??
i will awnser any and all questions anyone has, and i pray the lord will give me the wisdome to do so

i love you all,
please don't pass up this opportunity of a life time.

have a blessed day

@MaggieSue327 Amen i totally agree ppl need to hear this. I mean no one wants to go to hell, And i see people who say it is'nt bad or that they want to go there. Guys trust me its bad its horrible and you'll spend eternity there. And its not this one time thing u can't be like " Oh yeah i accepted Jesus im my heart when i was 5 but ur not working in that relationship ( and yes its a relationship between u and God not ur friends not your parents its yours and yours alone)

But theres a bright side to this all if u accept that gift that @MaggieSue327 was talking abt you will go to heaven and you will spend eternity there instead of hell.
The worst thing God can say to you is after your dead of earth and your in judgement (Yes everyone goes thru judgement even Christians) and u have to be accountable for everything u done And God will either say "Depart from me I never knew you" or Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom preared for you from

the foundation of the world. Matthew 25 31-46

@MaggieSue327 sry i was writing then u answered back but yes its so nice to see fellow Christians on here so im not the only one :>

dis is amazing @MaggieSue327
ppl do need to hear/read dis
the Lord is so good, He's done so much for me n i want others to experience His love
i dont want ppl to go to hell n so many innocent ppl go there because they never knew the Lord

Ppl definitely need to see this. Ty for posting it ^^

@-Ames- now we wait I guess

@sissi_crossing thank you,
I also hope this encourage more ppl who already know

''In peace I will both lie down and sleep; for you alone, O Lord, make me dwell in safety.'' -Psalm 4:8

AMEN!!! Ima Christian!! <3
this is beautiful tysm for this message

*i accidently deleted some of the description, until i can add it back, this is the rest of the verse:

-the gift of God is eternal life

the rest of the description said: allow me to tell you how you can go to heaven

I'm ss i typed this up on my computer which allows me to say more, i accidently clicked edit which cut out the extra texts

there was more, but i must go throught it again, so please bare with my stupidity until then

Amen :pray:
We learned a lot about this during devotions at school.
It can really make you feel thankful for the things you have in life.
I hope more ppl read this, and i pray that they will accept God and turn to the Lord.
Have a blessed day Maggie, thank u for sharing this :smiling:

While I do agree that faith in Jesus Christ is an absolutely important first step, I have reasons to believe it goes beyond confession and letting Him into your heart.
Matthew 7:21-27
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. ..."

A careful study of the Bible (and I would include church history) shows that there is a difference between "being saved" and "Entering the Kingdom of the Heaven".

It pushes a few of my buttons to see people quoting Titus and Ephesians under the assumption that it is all the Will of the Father.

I'm not bringing this up to say to start an argument, or say you're wrong, For the most part I agree and see that you're intentions are very pure. I'm just concerned that the "falling away" spoken of in 2 Thessalonians 2 may have began when people started changing the directions and commands given by Jesus himself.

On several occasions, Jesus commanded His disciples to repents and to be baptized. After His assention, He commandd his Apostles to baptize all nations. In Acts 2, Peter said to all who listened to him "Repent, and be baptized".
Acts 16:31 is often used to justify the confession belief, but literally two verses later, he baptized the man and his whole household that same night.

If Baptism, among many other principles taught by the Lord himself, are not the Will of the Father, why then are they commanded numerous times throughout the Bible? If you are not following the Will of the Father, can you then enter His Kingdom? Or if you cannot enter His Kingdom, can you then still be called His children?

These thoughts weigh heavy on me because so many honest and faithful people are taking scripture out of context and thinking that it's all they need.

Deuteronomy 8:3 reads
"...that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live."
Jesus hmself quoted this when He was tempted in the wilderness.

While obedience to these Commandments doesn't "save" you, striving with the Spirit to keep the commandments as best you can, then repenting and straitening youself out any time you slip up, is all that He can ask of you.

Philippians 4:13
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."
This includes becoming Like Him.
1 John 3-4
"... but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is. 4 And every man that hath this hope in Him purifieth himself, even as He is pure."

I'm done for now.
While there is a lot more I would like to point out, I feel this would suffce for now.

Please know that this is not to call anyone out. I am only sharing my thoughts.

@The_Adjudicator
yes i agree that there's more to the faith that many say,
this was a means of taking the first step,
my hope was that people would ask more questions and get involved,
it is completely up to anyone who sees this to decide what they will do with this information, all i wish to do is to get them to believe he's there in the first place, because if they do, likely people will look into it more

i appreciate you bringing this topic up,
sometimes there's only so much i can

include,
i honestly beleive this post did nothing for the kingdom,
but i cannot be sure, most people will pass this bye(*?)
and put little to no thought into it, ik ppl have bc most like many have seen this post, and did just that- walk away,
*idk which ''bye'' to use there...
i do hope that someone will see this and seek more information,
i've heard that the works you do after getting saved inproves your time in heaven, and on the new earth,
i believe in order to get into heaven you

must maintain a faith in Jesus, and it's not a ''believe now, forget later'' situation,
but i will look into the topic more bc rn, i have no verses to give,
until then- have a blessed day, and thank you for bringing up the topic, it's always good to have people around that can correct anything i've said,

@MaggieSue327
I appreciate deeply your reply. I hope this didn't come off as an attack in any way shape or form. I've had some negative encounters with Christian leaders in the past preaching their own interpretation of several verses taken out of context to suport themselves in a way that feels very money moticated, leading honest and faithful people down a path of indolence and apathy, then spending donations on their own vanity (private property, private jets, etc..). It's tragic really.

@The_Adjudicator
no- you're fine!!
-^w^-
it came off as a caring ''i'm looking out for you'' kinda way,

unfortunately, i've seen it too, it makes me sad, and i feel we may see more and more of those kind of leaders,
i'm glad you look into context!!

The last thing I would ever want to do is cause damage to anyone's faith, but I find that, and I think I have the right to speak this way of myself, I've been disillusioned to the mainstream of Christianity. I've learned that some traditions which have been held onto by Christians everywhere are not real tradition after all. Many of which actually started as early as the 4th century AD, through the Nicene creed, and may not be correct.

@The_Adjudicator really??
would you mind sharing some of these things??
i'm quite interested now, and i'd like to look into it

It's absolutely important to have a faith in Christ as your sure foundation of faith. If your faith, and I would also include your self-worth, is dependant on literally anything else, it is on a sandy foyndation, and it will fall when someone sweeps the rug out from under you.

Just by posting this, you've done a lot to help people. Whether they say anything or not, they'll remember this when it's needed. My only hope is they don't end up falling prey to wolves in sheep's clothing.

@The_Adjudicator
...
i'd hate to see any of my followers on the wrong side of judgement day...
;-; it makes me sad to think about..

I'll get back with you on this later. I have a job to get to right now. But Im convinced there's a lot more 5han we are led on to believe.
But for starters, infant baptism, and sprinkling were not part of the original process. In every case, baptism seems to be a decision made by the individual, not the parents/guardians. In all cases, they saught deep water to be "buried with Christ in baptism".

@The_Adjudicator
yeeah i have art that needs art-ing
ik about that, i've looked into it a lot, i just don't have the heart to tell them it doesn't do anything...
any way, thank you for this discussion!! i'm always happy to talk w/others about faith and the questions around it,
have a blessed day!!

Beautiful! I've just preyed now and accepted Jesus and it was quite a long prayer. It's not something, I've ever really done before, but now I have, maybe Jesus will accept me and send me to h....n when I d1e to live with my d...d Nana and Grandad and my other pets that have passed through the years!

@hannahwallbank
that makes me happy to know!!
thank you for sharing,
i pray the lord will work wonders in your life,

let me know if you have any questions

@-neo- you should read this & the first few coments

@RubyRomper
it's fixed after 30mins of typing -TwT-

@MaggieSue327 woah

yeah i love yall reiligon and ive said this am not christan i have my own religion am a therian! its called therianropy You belive you were a animal in your past life. please respect that.

@RubyRomper

@-neo- ok sorry. I didnt wanna seem pushy. I couldnt tell if you wanted to know more or not.

@RubyRomper
sorry i have troble spelling and expressing emotion am autistic

and dyslexic

@-neo-
Its fine!

@RubyRomper
ty

I realize I brought this up quite a long time ago, but I needed to double check my sources and confirm that I wasn't misremembering or misquoting anything from my studies over the years, but I mentioned some changes to Christian doctrines and beliefs that have taken place over the last two millenia, and if you're up for it, I'v prepared multiple sources and scripture references for you to study this out for yourself. It might go a bit contrary to the paradigm we've all been taught, but..

If it'll pique your interest, perhaps you could start by reading Spalms 16:9-11, and we can begin an open discussion from there. I'll be glad to hear your thoughts on the matter. But do know, I have many, many notes on the topic I'd like to begin with. And it might just change the light through which you look at the character and being of God.

@The_Adjudicator
sure!!i'll read psalms rn and we can start

i love discussing the Bible

tho just remember i'm not a bible scholar, so there might be more of me listening and agreeing then disagreeing, which ig is a good thing(??)
btw which version of the bible are you using? it will probably help me/us stay on the same page

i have thought abt what you stated previously, and you're right, not everything we've been taught is indeed in the bible, even some of the versions of the bible have been changed to fit what others believe to be true
i've considered taking this post down quite a few times and retrying, bc i do agree with you, there is more to salvation then just saying a prayer

i also feel like i did a bad job putting words together and making it make sense, it's just a sorta mess

@MaggieSue327
I think learning to work with imperfection is part of the process.
I'm most familiar with the King James version. Blue Letter Bible is a great source for comparing various different versions, languages, etc.. and it was recommended to me by some reputable sources, so I would encourage you to look into it as well if that's something you're into. A friend of mine gave me a PDF with a bunch of comparisons that showed a number of errors made with various English versions.

Anyway, the passage I shared is supposedly written by King David. He's a figure we can learn who's life choices we can learn a lot from, but that's a different discussion.
This little passage is evidence that he looked forward to a redeemer as well. However there's evidence that even Adam and Eve looked forward to their eventual redemption. The promise of a Savior has been around since day one. In fact, there's evidence a Savior was prepared even before the creation (1 Peter 1:18-20).

So when God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden with the Tree of Life and the Tree of the Fruit of Knowledge of Good and Evil (the forbidden fruit), how long did He intend to keep them there where they'd be tempted by the forbidden fruit?
I've had opportunity to ask questions like that to a number of Bible scholars, and what answer do you suppose they most often replied with?

@The_Adjudicator

oh yeah, i use kjv, i'll check out the other source, i think i've heard of it somewhere before

uhh, idk, when ever i ask that question they always say 'long enough' or 'we can't know for sure' or something to that effect, i assume relatively short, since there isn't much info on the space between verses 1:26 and chapter 3 (Genesis KJV)

@MaggieSue327
You're right. Those are the only answers they know how tive. That and "God works in mysterious ways". To be fair, no direct answer was given. However, a variety of little clues might tell a different story from the narative we've accepted, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter.
What if I told you that I'm convinced that the "fall of man" was not only part of the plan, rather it is actually the hinge on which God's plan would swing into action?

I'm glad you bring up Genesis 3. Verse 22 begins with the following: "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..."

Surely there is something significant about that new found capacity to know good from evil. It's still found in every person, whether they listen to it or not, it is there.

Someone once gave me a little parable which got a few gears in my head turning, and convinced me that this is worth looking into. I like to call it 'The Parable of the Road Map'. It goes like this:
A man was given directions to reach his destination in a faraway land. He was told these directions were reliable, but he was also given a road map to guide him if he ever felt lost.
Along the given route, he stopped at a station for refreshment and was greeted at the counter by the owner.

(continued)
The man at the counter asked:
"Where are you from?"
the man told him where he was from
He then asked:
"Where are you going?"
He replied with his destination.
The man's expression changed to confusion.
"If that is where you want to go, you are far off the path you need to take."
He then asked:
"Do you have a road map?"
The man replied saying:
"I do" , and proceeded to pull out his map, and the kind stranger showed him that there is a better route.

So the last question I would like to present to you today is this:
When presented with conflicting information, where do you turn for answers?

@The_Adjudicator
well, i feel like i should say the bible, but i usually don't go there first, sometimes it's best to just ask God his thoughts, and he then supplies answers, throught things (examples that he has used in the past) like other people, realizations, remembering old verses i once memorized, and heck once he used a song by casting crowns.. i think only a few times physically opening the bible has supplied answers

i do know that some people go to their pastors or church leaders

the parable you told me is quite a fascinating one, certainly it shows how careful you need to be abt listening to others
i suppose the meaning behind it could be to tell people to check the sources they've been provided, yk before they go to far..
tho i could misunderstand, that's what it ment to me

---not to say i don't read the bible and i don't find it madly helpful, but in times of despair or distress, it helps more to tell him what's on my mind, and he typically helps me find answers, or gives me a little reminder that i need to be patient while he works, (ie this on time he reminded me: ''faith of a mustard seed,'' and ''in your wait i am working'' as well as ''throught the fire, i am with thee'' (i can't quote the chapter or the verse where these came from, i just remember them from

-con- from various preachings thoughtout the years)

honestly i could rant all day abt how he answers prayers/questions
to summarize, i go to God

and yes, i believe it was apart of a bigger plan, tho he didn't create man to rebel, i think he created man knowing he would
that knowledge makes me strangely at ease as well, bc he created man knowing what would happen, and yet, he loves us enough to give us a chance anyway

''love them as they are, but love them too much to leave them there''
(^^^^ i legit quote this whenever i can ->w<-'' )

*idk if that last comment makes sense (it's in regards to your question abt Adam and Eve's sin in the garden

@MaggieSue327
It would appear that we are largely on the same page here. : ) I believe the best advice I've been given is to first pray and ask for wisdom (James 1:5-6), study study it out, ponder it in your heart, then ask to know if it something is right.
I find that in doing so, I recieve a calming reassurance on the matter.

I think the parable could go both ways to be honest. Sometimes roads are worked on, routes are changed and maps become outdated. Other times a kind looking stranger could make a mistake, or be malicious in some unforeseen way. The Bible has been described as a double-edged sword. It could cut both ways, and if you're not careful, you may just as easily injure yourself. At the very least, that's what I've learned in my years studying from a variety of sources with equal variety of opinions.

I previously pointed out 1Peter: 18-20, implying Jesus was prepared before the foundation of the world. When Adam and Eve were escorted out of the Garden, God provided them with coats made of skin to clothe them with. An inquiring mind might ask where that skin came from, whether it was prepared on the spot, or if God slew an animal as a sacrifice for them. Believe it or not, there was an animal slain before the foundation of the word. This Lamb is spoken of all throughout the Revelation.

And while it may be more symbolic than literal, I believe there is meant to be a connection to Genesis. I believe we can see in this the hidden message that like how being clothed can cover our vulnerability, Jesus' atonement can cover our sin through Grace.

In Luke 4:18-19, Jesus reads from Isaiah (Isaiah 61: 1-2) and proclaims "this day is this prophecy fulfilled unto you." Paying particular attention to "preach deliverance to the captives" and "set at liberty, them that are bruised".

In the early days of the church, an event known as "the Harrowing of Hell" was widely believed and taught. That is to say, when Jesus "gave up the ghost" as it were, He descended into Hell to set free the captives, which promise is well described in all of Hebrews 11 (particularly verse 13). It is still written in the Creeds of the Catholic church ("..He descended into hell, and rose again.."), though I'm not sure they still teach it. And indeed, most churches now no longer teach of it.

So what does this teach us about the nature and being of God, and our relationship with Him? I belive Jesus gave the best answer to that in a parable (Luke 7:41-43) Though before I give my final thoughts on this matter, I'd like to hear your thoughts thus far first. You may like to do a quick Google search on "The Harrowing of Hell", if this is something you've never heard of before. There's lots of fascinating articles on the matter.

@The_Adjudicator
in regards to it all being planned out, my dad once told me something abt that (idk if i've mentioned it prior) that everything leading up to (i believe but i may be wrong on where) Jesus's birth (like i said, i'm not sure exactly where, it could have been anywhere before that) reflects what happens after Jesus's death, a good example would be: Noah's flood, how he warned them for years, and by the time they realized he was write, it was too late bc the door had closed.
-con-

God even told him that he would never flood the earth again, that the next time, he would cover it in fire

with that said, it is likely that it was all planned (i think i've said this earlier)
i'm not sure if i can give an opinion on a lame/beast having been slain prior to Adam and Eve's sin

i have never heard mention of that, but i will do research and return :)

@MaggieSue327
That's the thing though isn't it? God's plan is omnipotent, and set up to accommodate every little variable. With Jesus being at the center of that plan, one need only ask this one simple question: Was Jesus prepared as the back-up plan, or is He -THE plan-? In Luke 7:41-43, He taught: "..Which of them will love him most?" The parable's lesson is applicable in multiple ways.

Who will love God more? Adam and Eve in the Garden, not knowing good from evil? or them making a mistake, having a debt they cannot pay, then being graciously forgiven of all?

Could we have possibly known how good we had it if we were all still in a state of pure innocence? Or would that have simply been common place to us? Think about it. We live in a generation where global travel is almost available to everyone. And not just that, but you can travel the globe in less time than a day.

If you were to travel back in time a centry, or to any point before then, and tell them about modern jets and airplanes, what would they think? How differently would they react compared to telling your neighbor about it? For us, these marvelous miracles of modern engeneering have become commonplace. We have no idea how good we have it. However, take these things away for a time, and experiece life without these conveniences, and you will begin to see how incredible they really are.

I think the same thing will be understood when we see God as a bright and shining contrast to the dreary darkness we've lived through here. When the Devil and his angels rebelled against God (see Isaiah 14:10-17, see also Revelation 12: 7-13), they did so out of pride saying ".. I will exalt my throne above the stars of God", and other such things. However, I think they also were oblivious to how good they had it there. It would seem that God's love and grace was only commonplace to them.

I belive that is the purpose of this mortal experience. I believe that is why God wants us to choose Him. Not because He is the only thing we've ever known, but because we've learned to contrast His light from everything else. Accepting Jesus as your Lord is only the first step in walking out of that darkness. From there, it is learning to recognize His voice when He speaks to you, and choosing Him above all else.

That is why I feel uncomfortable with the "sinner's prayer". Firstly, it is part of a movement that is only about 50 years old, having been started in the 1970's. Secondly, it attempts to undermine the deep riches of the full Gospel of Jesus Christ as far as we have been given, and I'm going to speak a bit harshly here, with a shallow view of the nature of God's plan for us. They ask the question: "have you been saved?" without thinking -Are you being saved FROM something? or FOR something?-

@The_Adjudicator

you ask deep questions,
but i do agree,
furthermore, i think you're observations are very keen, i've never met someone who is so invested and i love it sm!!
i think he knew it would happen, so he made a plan, that plan being Jesus, even before him made the earth he knew how it would end
and your point with plans is very well said,
i'm sure Adam and Eve would have never realized the complete glory of the Lord without knowing what life was like without him,
There's an old

saying that goes:
''if you never see the darkness, you'll never notice the light''

personally, i don't have much ground to stand on when speaking, so i can't give a full observation, and my explaining skills are by no means good, but i think God made Adam and Eve, not so they could sin against him, but he certainly knew they would, and knowing they would, he wanted to give them hope, a second chance, so Jesus would go down to heaven, another heart break for God, but he knew it would happen,

he regarded us as worth it enough to allow Jesus to make such a sacrifice

which plays into your last point, and i agree, the sinners prayer has it's downsides, like how many say it with no meaning, i personally believe it's simple expressing verbally your promise to live with him in your heart, to thrive to live by his will; (Romans 10:9-10)
i received the lord at a very young age (i say received, i really only said the prayer.. mind i was five, but still lol) it took me many years to truly

understand what it meant,
it took me to actually see how he works, and the protect and power he has over me, and then i fully understood the importance of his presence in my life,
but if i had never been told the prayer in the first place, i may have never found that peace

when teaching people the sinners prayer, (I do wish they would be saved immediately don't get me wrong, but ik the strongest faiths are made through struggle if yk wha i mean) my main goal is to plant that seed, and pray

the lord will use his magical timing skills to help them understand what it truly means to be saved.
as any Christian can agree, being saved is something hard to explain, if one can, likely people who have not experienced his greatness can comprehend what it's like

on the same note, i do agree, many 'traditional' Christian things are indeed, not traditional, and were added later by religious learders for the sake of _____ (basically whatever there reasons were, though many of them were to self

-help, i can't say for certainty that that has aways been the case)

also i apologize for taking so long to get back to you, i had a trip, and have only just gotten back in order as far as schedule and such

also reading through that -^w^'- there's a lot of spelling errors, i apologize for that as well,
it's been a week of all nighters and broken sleep schedules

@MaggieSue327
That's a lovely wall of text.. : )
As much as I'd love to say I figured this out on my own, in truth, I've studied with a variety of sources (including some you'd likely be told to stay away from) simply out of a faith crisis of sorts when there was brought to my attention a great number of things that went contrary to the paradigm many of us are taught. That crisis went away as Jesus became more real to me, but that's a long, gradual story.

More recent than that, I once heard a wise man say "Never let a good faith crisis go to waste." Something that would have been nice to hear sooner, but I was able to find my way through all the same. I now like to echo that statement. If you don't understand something now, doesn't mean you cannot find an answer. I can't say all the answers I've found are true or correct, but many things that once made no sense, are now crystal clear to me, because I learned to look at them differently.

I do suppose I've looked too harshly on the sinners prayer. If something helps yoi draw nearer to Jesus, it isn't all wrong. My only concern is that, just as you said, some may be convinced that it is all they need, and may not actually develope a personal relationship with God.

In like manor, I've heard stories related to people who are not Christian by any faith, yet I'm convinced they will indeed enter into the Kingdom of God when the time comes.

If you would like to know how I've come to that conclusion, we may open a discussion on that as well. Likewise, if there is any topic you're interested in discussing, I would like to hear your thoughts and maybe we could be edified together on something you like about the Gospel message.

@The_Adjudicator

oh my goodness i'm so sorry for the late response ;-;
i've been super busy...
ah yes, a faith crisis,
personally, i feel like they are mandatory for getting closer to him
after all, it tends to raise questions that where nonexistent prior
some of my biggest breakthroughs in this long treck of faith was after a struggle
i would love to hear about what you've learned, it's quite refreshing to take notes and compare pov's

i do have one thing i'd like to ask, it's fine if

you haven't found an answer
but i was wondering where ypu think Jesus went for the three days
i had a debate with someone about it and, well, lets just say it was unproductive
which, as you can imagine, was quite dissatisfactory

in regards to the sinners prayer,
i feel it's a seed being planted,
that, lord willing, will be remembered in times of crisis to remind them they aren't alone, and comfort them

for example,
i said the sinners prayer when i was really young, naturally, it ment barely anything to me bc i didn't understand it
so naturally, i didn't exercise the holy spirit,
however, one night, several years later, i had been having horrible dreams about fallen angles, and it really was terrorizing, especially

as you can imagine, for a little kid
but on that night, i remembered the prayer i had said, and i recommited myself
since then i've fallen short a couple of times, but i've never forgotten, nor questioned, who i belonged too
:)
that's my baseline for the prayer,
my goal isn't to teach you what it means, and make you understand it fully,
my goal is to plant the seed, and pray that they will remember it when they face hardship
after all, words aren't my specialty, and i've never been grea

great at explaining
so i'm not exactly equiped (nor called, as far as i'm aware) to teach the word, only to spread it (If tha makes sense)

i would like to hear about these people,
they sound like a stunning group
not really, tho i have lots of text connections that i would like to share, if you'd like (you may be aware of them, but if not, they will likely peak your fancy)

@MaggieSue327
Debates tend to be unfruitful when made between closed minds.
I don't know if we can rightly say where Jesus went in the interim before His resurrection. According to the Apostle's creed of the Catholic church, the Apocryphal book The Gospel of Peter, and some early Christan beliefs, He descended below all things, so that He could ascend above them all. It seems it was once believed that He broke through the gates of Hell and freed the captives who served Him in life.

According to the Mormon (Latter-day Saints) belief, He spent the three days organizing a mission among the believers to free any who would believe the message of the Gospel.

Of all the materials I've read on the subject, the most compelling one to me is that He, in one way or another, seemed to have freed the captives. Where exactly and how is not something I think we know enough to say with certainty.

There's a movement I've been following loosely which speculates on this thing they call "the Deuteronomist reform", which thesis implies that around the time of Hezekiah (who lived along side Isaiah), there was a movment among the scribes to reform both church and state. It's thought that they changed the system to suppress idolatry, reinstate temple cervice, and "correct" the Judean belief system. One of the things they did was to remove and destroy the brazen serpent that Moses lifted..

.. in the wilderness, which was made as a similitude of Jesus 'that any who should look upon it would be healed' (which has it's own side tangent that could open up a can of worm if you think too hard about it). Part of the problem there is that many people started worshiping the brazen serpent, along with many other relics. So Hezekiah agreed with this movement to remove these idols and return to strictly following the law given through Moses..

The thing that the Deuteronomist thesis is looking into is the possibility the book of Deuteronomy might be a forgery, and that the scribes might have removed a lot of the true beliefs, along side the many false beliefs that crept in over time. There's subtle evidence that a correct belief in Messiah, meaning Savior (Jesus as we know Him now) was taught before the days of Hezekiah. Let's think about it shall we: Why would the True Gospel only be taught about 4000 years after creation?

In 1 Corinthians 10: 1-4, Paul speaks of Isreal being "baptized unto Moses" and eating the same spiritual meat, and drinking the same spiritual water from the rock, "and that rock was Christ".
There is some baptismal language in the Old Testament as well. Isaiah 1:16-18 sounds a lot like baptism and repentance, as well as Jesus' teaching to give to those who stand in need. Aditionally, when Solomon built the Temple in Jerusalem, 1 Kings 7: 23-26 describes a large, elaborate basin being built..

.. Could that basin have been used for baptism?

Back to new testament record, when John the baptist was baptizing in the river, the locals seemed to understand what baptism was for, but argued that their bloodline as descendants of Abraham was all they needed, to which John replied something to this effect: -If God so desired, even these rocks could be the descendants of Abraham- (which response I find quite amusing)

This leads us to the million dollar question: What happened?

Why is there such disconnect between the old and new testaments? was the original old testament so dramatically reformed that many of the true and correct teachings removed?

I don't know if the Deuteronomist thesis is correct, but I think they are certainly on to something that needs further investigation.

If you have anything you'd like to share with me, I'm open to hearing and considering anything interesting you found. Could have some useful information that I'm not familiar with yet.

@The_Adjudicator
so sorry for the late response!!
okay, the Dueteronomist reform, I do believe that was an attempt to remove themselves from the tendincies for Pagans,
tho, i do not know if it is morally correct to change manuscripts in the bible, it certainly sounds wrong (At least to me, as how in my use of the KJV)
It would make sense for the laws to slowly become corrupt, tho the question of the book as a whole being forgered is something i've never heard before,
If you really think about it, it is a little odd that baptism isn't mentioned in the old testament, and if it where to be, i'd expect it to be in Deuteronamy given that it's the covenant that binds Yahweh (God of isreal) and Israel itself

Baptism (as I'm a Baptism IK not all denominations believe the same as me, but it is kinda in the name soo-) Is symbolic of a promise to live in God's works (Basically a public announcement that you are saved and will do what's in your power to follow God' commands)
so, if this book is about the covenant, then why does it lack that detail?
we know Jesus was baptised, so it's clearly something he wants us to do (Matthew 29; 19 KJV) I will definately be looking into this topic more, it's very intriguing!
something I have found myself getting involved with is the question "what is Faith without works?"
Which, I know where i stand on;
Faith alone saves you, but with faith, comes works
To put it simply, if you love someone, you'll want to spend time with them, you'll want to do things that please them,
if you love God, and believe Jesus's blood saved you, then it'll show in your works
you can't be of God, and be of the world as well,

though i do think this is a solid belief, there seems to be some arguement about it (Basically, while doing some research on Theology, i found a catholic creator who made a video about a conversation he had with a prodistant chursch going [namely Baptist would you have it] This guy went to the church, sat through it, and at the end of service found himself discussing salvation with a memebr (Basically anyway, the story is on his Channel @/CatholicTruthOfficial (titled: Baptist and Catholic (Catholic Conversation with a Baptist about Faith Alone))
I don't take much stock in what the Catholic's belief, and especially this guy, BUT I couldn't help but feel the strong erge to discuss with someone,
If you go to the video, and scroll long enough, you may very well find my comment, where I discussed with the creator, and couldn't help but realize that him and the prodistant seem to believe much the same, and that the only reason they could not find common ground was due to a predetermined biased, and want to argue
It's a little sad when you think about it, I think a lot of problems derive from a lack of understanding and wish to do so
but those are my thought,
sorry the text segment is so long hehe.. I'm using a computer, so there is no limit to my rambles * mischivious laugh*
Anyway, have a blessed day, and once again, sorry for the late response,
I really appreciate this kind of Biblical discussion

**it is worth mentioning that, because of this predetermined biased set inside of me, I might have missunderstood myself what the guy was taliing about, but idk for sure, bc, well, biased.

I've been convinced recently to be more open to hearing this sort of discourse. I usually prefer to stay away from that sort of thing because it just leaves me feeling gross by the end of it, however I recently heard a good distinction between contending and being contentious, simply that one is being defensive and the other being offensive. A couple other good related principles on the matter would be these: 1 Peter 3:15-17(and on) ".. be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness.."
the other is more interesting with context, but I'm going to paraphrase Asmongold (a self proclaimed "enlightened aetheist") a little, who once said something to the effect, 'it's good to be open minded, but not so open minded that your brain falls out of your skull'.

If you've spent enough time on the internent, I'm sure you've heard of the term "echo-chamber", refering to an enclosed environment of single-mindedness. That's not really a bad thing per-say, but when everyone in that "echo-chamber" is wrong about something, and it's all they share with one another, they just reinforce their incorrect bias, and it lead to having loyalty to a fault, and unfortunately there are some circles of christianity that are, at worst, an echo-chamber. I heard a quote from Aristotle once who said: "it is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.", and I sometimes find myself reflecting on the things I hear from my own church circle, wondering what this sounds like to an -outsider-, and if this would be reasonable if spoken in a public place. That being said, many Prophets, including Jesus and His Disciples, spoke things that came off as -unreasonable- to His people, the children of Israel.

While I don't subscribe to the full faith and tradition of the Catholic faith, there are a good number of things that we can learn from them. I find that many of their Saint traditions and stories are very uplifting and filled with honest to God men and women who bravely stood for a noble cause, and I think thier noble stories should be taught in more Christian circles.
While I don't subscribe to the faith and tradition of the Muslim faith, likewise, there are a number of good things that we can learn from them as well. I might have shared this with you before but I once met a woman who served in the US military in the Middle-East, who was injured during a skirmish, but nursed back to health by some of the locals (against their nation's wishes), saying that even though she had Christian values, she was a child of God, and didn't deserve to die. These good people are, at worst, "Samaritans" to the rest of us, and there are many "good Samaritans" among these people. I would say the same thing about other denominations who are often spoken harshly about, such as Jehovah's Witnesses or Latter Day Saints (Mormons), who are, at worst, the "Samaritans", and in many cases, the "good Samaritans".

On the topic of faith, there is indeed a natural change of action when there is a change of heart. When we are told to repent, we are being asked to change from our way, and turn to God. That is what the word repent means, -to change direction-. it's an ongoing effort on your part as well. At any moment, you may decide to turn away from God. You may not want to do that right now, and may even repulse at the thought, but no power is forcing you to walk this way. But if you decide to slow down your pace, and stop walking toward God, you may, eventually, fall into apathy, and loose your love for God. I've seen it happen to good folk who were once valliant in their faith, but let the cares of the world overtake them. I believe that is what James was trying to warn us about in James 2: 17-26. Though your works might not be what saves you, they do exercise the body, nourish the mind, and keep you alive both physically and spiritually.

In closing, I do greatly appreci

And just as an aside:

regarding the Deuteronomist movement, I saw a post that has even more compelling evidence to the matter;
Deuteronomy 18: 20-22
"But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophe shall die.
And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
When a prophe speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophe hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid fo him."

Throughout the New Testament Gospels, we get an interesting response from Jesus Himself regarding what has happend to many of these prophets:
Matthew 23: 30-31
"...And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets"
Matthew 23: 34-35
"Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in yhou synagogues, and peersegute them from city to city:
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Able unto the blood of Zacharieas son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and th altar.
Matthew 23: 37-38
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Behold, your house is left into you desolate."
To give one of a few striking examples of this sort of rebuke

And as further evidence of tampering, consider the following passages in this context:
John 5:39
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
John 8:56
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."
Surely, there was a time when the Old Testament testified of Jesus more clearly. He was not speaking presuptuously, He was telling them something they would have already known, but refused to accept.
Matthew 2:23
"And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prohets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
whichever prophet Matthew was refering to, we do not know, because there is no other book we have today that he might have been refering to, which prophesies that Messiah would be called a Nazarene.
It seems likely that someone tried to scrub any evidence of Jesus' ministry from the Law and the Prophets (Old Testament). And yet there are still many vague an cryptic messages that remain. There are many Psalms that reflect His ministry. Isaiah speaks of Him often as well. The offering of a lamb was in similitude of the Father offering His Son as a sacrifice, even from the time of Adam and Eve, the earliest record being of Able offering his firstborn lamb, or of Abraham offering his firstborn son. Surely he was told later what that offering stod for, but if that part existed, we do not know anything of it.